Photo: Alan Snodgrass
There is no shortage of famous punk rockers named Mike — Mike Ness, Mike Dirnt, Mike Herrera. Then there’s Fat Mike, arguably the grand poobah of them all.
Best known as the irreverent frontman for seminal punk band NOFX, he is also the co-founder of Fat Wreck Chords, the iconic San Francisco record label that turns 25 years old this year. Marking the birthday is a series of gigs starting August 6 that features a cast of Fat bands so good it’s silly.
I caught up with Fat Mike while he was chillin in his Los Angeles BDSM dungeon to talk label history, the time Against Me! ignored his advice, and his run-ins with the Foo Fighters. For more info on the Fat Tour, visit fatwreck.com.
Corey Jones: So I saw you apologize to Vanessa [Burt, Fat Wreck publicist] on Twitter this morning. What were you apologizing for?
Fat Mike: Well, I’ve been doing a couple of interviews and I just realized NOFX’s first release came out in 1991. [Laughs.] So yeah…it’s 24 years [of Fat Wreck Chords, not 25]. I’ve fucked shit up like that before. Like our song “August 8th ” – the Jerry Garcia one. After the record came out a lot of people were like, “You know he died on August 9th, right?” I totally got the date wrong.
I can think of a lot of bands that were left off that would have fit the bill for this tour – Dillinger Four, Lawrence Arms, Anti-Flag, Against Me! How did you go about arranging the lineup?
You know, I didn’t have that much to do with it. NOFX was going to tour and we were like “Let’s do a Fat tour.” Of course, we got Lagwagon and Strung Out which are like the old big bands. And Swingin’ Utters. The thing is, no one really wants to open. [Laughs.] So that’s the problem. It’s tough to get old bands to open so you’ve really got to get new bands. If we had Against Me! and one of the other bands you mentioned, then it’d be Swingin’ Utters opening and you can’t have fucking Swingin’ Utters opening. And actually, Rise Against said they were going to do the tour, or at least do two or three shows, but they bailed. That would have been nice.
It’s safe to say that the public perception of you is as a hard-partying punk guy, but I have to believe you’re smarter and more disciplined than you’re given credit for. I mean, you spent your 20s getting this really successful label off the ground at a time when most people were figuring out what to do with their lives. What do you say to that?
Well it’s pretty funny because as I do this interview I’m drinking a Stella and, uh, I just did a line of cocaine. Yeah, I am that party guy, but the thing is I didn’t try drugs until my 30s. I finished college, went on tour, then started the business. Your brain develops until you’re 28. I had my fucking shit together. And I fucking worked really, really hard at Fat Wreck Chords for years and produced a lot of bands and made all kinds of deals with distributors that were unheard of.
Yeah?
Yeah, we didn’t go exclusive with anybody. RED, which is a distributor that Sony owns – we’re the only label on RED that is not exclusive. At one point they said, “Well you have to be exclusive with us.” And I said no. And they said “Well you have to.” And I said “Oookay.” At the time I was like “You’re not going to make your million dollars off us. We’ll just go to someone else.” They asked me why [we wouldn’t go exclusive] and I told them we were with a few distributors and I’m loyal and I wasn’t going to fucking leave them because they were some big distributor. The president [of RED] at the time said he liked that. Out of about 200 labels, Fat Wreck Chords was the only label that was not exclusive on RED. That’s kind of how we run the business. We just run it our own way. If you don’t want to be a part of it, then don’t. Who cares.
Photo: Alan Snodgrass
When you’re in the moment, you don’t realize history is happening. Were there any events you look back on now that you view as pivotal in the trajectory of the label that you didn’t realize at the time?
The funny thing with Fat Wreck Chords is that we’ve never had a gold record but what we did have and still have is consistently good punk records. What was very fortunate for us is that the first six or seven bands we signed all made great records. They were all great bands and they all sold shit loads. It made it so that we could be fair to everybody – to our employees to our bands. We could spend lots of money and that’s when we were like “Okay, one-record deals with bands and we’re going to do it how nobody does it.” Luckily, Face to Face, Lagwagon, No Use for a Name, Good Riddance, Strung Out, Propaghandi – they’re all fucking great bands.
You mentioned Propagandhi. For a while there seemed to be beef between you and them but you appear to be on good terms now with them playing the San Francisco date of the tour. How did the reconciliation with those guys come about?
I don’t know if we “reconciled.” We were always friends. In the early days when I was producing them we used to go out and get fucking loaded together. Those days are over, but we’ve always stayed friendly. [Propagandhi frontman] Chris Hannah stopped coming to NOFX shows in Winnipeg and I missed a couple of their shows. They played Gilman [Street, in Berkeley, CA] a few years ago when they were still on Fat and they were cool until right in the middle of their set Chris said “This song goes out to all the punk rock millionaires.” I was like “Why are you dissing me like that?” I like dissing people but I like to be funny a little. I didn’t think that was that funny. I looked back through our records and we had paid them over a million dollars in royalties at that time so I was like “Don’t be calling me a millionaire when you guys have made over a million dollars and all own houses.” It was just Chris. He was giving me shit for backing the Democratic Party but I wasn’t backing the Democratic Party – I was fighting against George Bush. It’s like “Dude, we’re both on the same team, we’re both liberals. Why do you got to give me shit? I’m out there doing something.” But I see Chris and we’re fine. He called us and asked if we wanted to do some re-issues and we said sure. There is no band that has left Fat Wreck Chords that I have a bad relationship with. I’ve stayed friends with every band except for that one [Screeching] Weasel band…
Yeah, so what’s the story there?
You know what, I’m still friends with old members of [Screeching Weasel]. It’s just the one dude. It started out when I re-signed them. We had no problems. He wanted me to put out all their old records and it was kind of a hassle so I didn’t do it. He told me that we paid them more consistently than anybody else and they got back together and did a new record and we signed them. I went to go see them in LA and I got there early to hang out and the manager said “You can’t go back right now.” I was like “Really? They’re not going on for like two hours.” So he goes “Well, he likes to be alone and he’s praying. He has a routine.” He became a Catholic, which is crazy. Who becomes a Catholic? So I guess he has his Catholic time before shows. So me and my fiancé, Soma, are hanging out with a bunch of idiots, just sitting there for two hours because we can’t go backstage to say hi. I mean, fuckin’ A! What the fuck is that about? Then he talked shit about me on the record, and that’s fine – I still put out the record. Whatever. It’s kind of a dickhead thing to do. Then when that shit happened when he punched two girls we were like “Well we don’t want your band on our label. You’re a dick.”
There was a period in the late 90s/early 2000s when Fat had a subsidiary label called Honest Dons. Why didn’t Honest Dons work out?
Well, the thing is we were putting out so many records in the late 90s that I didn’t want to start putting out a new record every week. There were so many good bands so I started the label for bands that were maybe more poppy or a little different or not as good. I wanted to keep the Fat sound really good. A lot of those bands got kind of silly. A lot of them broke up and the ones that were good I just put on Fat like Chixdiggit, Real McKenzies and Mad Caddies.
Whatever happened to Teen Idols?
Oh, they just self-destructed.
I liked those guys. They were catchy.
I did too. We took them on tour everywhere. They were a bunch of southerners that liked to drink whiskey and fight. They just got into too many fights I guess.
I hear that around the time Anti-Flag released A New Kind of Army, you didn’t think they were good enough to be on Fat. What’s your version of the story?
Yeah, that’s true. I really liked their first album but their second album I really didn’t like. They weren’t happy with that, but then they got good again. I don’t know, some people like [the second] record but I think it’s kind of weak. Honest Dons was a label where the bands were a little bit sub-par. It had a lot of bands that I thought were cool or that were friends of mine. I wanted to put [Anti-Flag] out but I wanted to keep Fat Wreck Chords to a certain standard.
One of the bands you signed that is an exception to the typical Fat sound was Sick of It All. A lot of their fans had a backlash to that.
It was really weird. We put out Call to Arms and I was kind of bummed at them because it was one of their worst records. If you’re going to come to a label where you’re going to get shit then at least put out a fucking good record. Then the next record, Yours Truly, was a really good record. But the other one was terrible. I fought them for fucking weeks going “Don’t put out this fucking artwork [on Your Truly]. It’s terrible.” But they loved it. One year later they called and said “Mike, you were right.” Call to Arms sold twice as many as Yours Truly and it’s an inferior record. It’s amazing how bands don’t listen to me like I don’t know what I’m doing.
When was the last time that happened?
It just happens all the time. The time it really pissed me off was – well, when [Against Me! frontwoman Laura Jane Grace] was Tom Gabel, we argued about the cover of Searching for a Former Clarity. You know how small the Against Me! name is on that record? It’s tiny. And that’s twice as big as what I wanted. That’s what I won. And it’s like grey. You can’t even see it. I was like “What are you guys doing?! We’re spending a lot of money on this record. Put your name on the fucking record!” Then the next record comes out and it’s on a major label and there is a tiger and a huge “Against Me!” But I love those guys and I’m friends with all of them still.
You played bass on their last record didn’t you?
Fuck yeah I did.
It’s a good one. Took me a few listens to warm up to it but it’s good.
It’s better than their last couple.
Photo: Alan Snodgrass
Of the bands that have “graduated” from Fat, Rise Against has gone on to have the most massive success. What do you remember most about the period when they were getting really big?
They said they wanted to go to a major and I said “Alright. Probably a good move.” When Anti-Flag said they were going to a major, I said “Probably not a good move.” One thing I am kind of, well not proud of, but I do like, is that we sold 14,000 units of Anti-Flag when The Terror State came out in its first week, and when they went to a major they sold less their first week. I was like “Yeah! How do you like that?!” I wanted them to get big like Rise Against but I told them they weren’t the band that was going to get big like that. I didn’t see it happening. I thought Against Me! had a chance and Rise Against had a chance. You really need to have “Against” in your name to have a chance. “Anti” doesn’t sound as strong as “Against.”
On the topic of Rise Against, your bass playing reminds me a lot of Joe’s in the sense that you do a lot of up strokes…
Wait, that’s so funny. My bass playing reminds you of Joe’s bass playing? You know I’ve been around longer than Joe and Rise Against. A little longer…
Let me put it this way, the two styles of playing resemble each other in that there are lot more upstrokes than downstrokes. Is that just the way you learned to play?
No one taught me to play. That’s just how I did it. I think Joe just took my style. When you upstroke you can do a lot of cool things that other bands can’t do like that riff in “The Decline.”
That’s such a good riff. I don’t know how you play that song when you’re drunk. Seems so hard.
Yeah, it’s super hard. But you know, it’s muscle memory. I’m such a great bass player. [Laughs.]
What Fat band does your daughter like the most?
Masked Intruder, for sure.
I wanted to ask you about No Use for a Name, one of my favorite bands on the label.
Tony Sly was the best songwriter on Fat Wreck Chords for sure.
In your opinion, what was the best record No Use ever put out?
Well my favorite record is 12 Song Program as far as what Tony put out. But No Use, I would say Hard Rock Bottom. Their last record (The Feel Good Record of the Year) was fucking great though.
It was! But it didn’t get a lot of coverage. I feel like it got overlooked in a way.
Well that’s what happened with No Use. People stopped caring about them because their name was bad and they didn’t have a lot of personality on stage. These days you need everything. You can’t just have great songs. You need more. You need charisma, great songs, timing, everything. It gets tougher and tougher. They were having a tough time drawing people. I remember when I told The Bouncing Souls that No Use had three records that sold over 200,000 copies, they were like “What?! We don’t even have one over 100,000.” But The Bouncing Souls continue to draw good crowds because there is something about them people connect with, you know?
Photo: Alan Snodgrass
Chris Shiflett did two records with No Use before joining the Foo Fighters. A lot of the guys in Foo Fighters come from punk roots and I imagine you’ve hung out with them. What have those encounters been like?
Oh, I’ve had some super funny encounters with them. I met Dave Grohl at a bar in Amsterdam in 1988 when he was in Scream. Ever since then he’s been the nicest fucking guy. It was funny because they were playing Reading Festival once, which is this big festival in Europe, and Me First and the Gimme Gimmes were playing. They were playing three hours and the Gimmes were playing an hour. They played an hour and we watched them, then we played an hour, then we watched their last half hour. But before the show there was like a hundred people trying to get backstage with them and there was no one allowed backstage and we went back there and Dave was like “Hey guys! Come on back!” So we were the only people allowed with them backstage and I was talking to Dave for a while and Pat Smear came over and I was like “Pat!” I mean, Pat was in the fucking Germs! So I start talking to Pat and Dave looks at me and is like “You dick. A lot of people would like to talk to me. I’m kind of popular.” [Laughs.] I’m like “Dude, Pat was in The Germs. You were in Scream. It’s no contest.”[Laughs.]
Then I ran into Dave at Vons in Mammoth [Mountain, California] which is super funny. We were just walking down aisles with shopping carts and I look at him and I’m like “Well that looks like Dave Grohl. He wouldn’t be at Vons in Mammoth.” He goes “Hey Fat Mike!” I’m like “Holy shit. What the fuck are you doing here?” He says “Oh I’m here with my wife and her family on vacation.” I’m like “I’m here with my wife and her family!” [Laughs.] That was hilarious. Then we ended up at the same restaurant the next night and he shouts to me “Hey Mike!” It was pretty fucking hysterical. Those are some of my Foo Fighters stories.
Oh and you know what, the thing is when we record now, they let us record for free at their studio – the 606. It’s fucking awesome.
Besides the console from the Sound City documentary, what makes that studio so good?
It’s the best studio ever. They have one of everything. Every drum set, every bass, every guitar, every amp, pinball machines, large pictures of Dave Grohl everywhere, Nirvana posters. It’s the friendliest, coolest fucking studio ever. This guy Lou, who is the engineer, he’s an awesome dude. Not only is it the best studio, it’s just a great place to record with great people – and it’s free! Fuck! That’s how cool the Foo Fighters are. They’re just like “Oh we’re not using it so yeah, you guys just go record there.” I’ve been recording stuff for Home Street Home, my musical, and same thing – Chris is like “Eh, just go record there.”[Laughs.] They pay for the staff. They’re like “Eh, we do great. What do we care?” It’s fucking rad, dude.
I personally think that Pump Up the Valuum is one of your most underrated records. What’s your take on that album?
I like Wolves in Wolves Clothing better.
Really?
Yeah, that’s the record I like a lot. Have you listened to that record? Every song? There are some good songs on that shit. You haven’t listened to it. You know why? Because the cover isn’t good. What if I told you that it may be our best fucking record?
Then I’ll have to give it a closer listen.
It’s good dude. And Pump Up the Valuum is pretty good. I think So Long and Thanks for All the Shoes is probably our best album. Wolves in Wolves Clothing is second. You know what’s funny about Pump Up the Valuum? Some of those lyrics are fucked up! I was living in a pretty nice neighborhood in San Francisco and some of my neighbors’ kids liked NOFX and that’s when that record came out. After that record came out people looked at me different. Fuck. You know with that song “Louise”? And “My Vagina”? I’m a fucking freak dude. By the way, you know during this interview right now I’m just sitting in my dungeon.
Sounds like you spend lots of time there.
I spend quite a bit of time in here. But it’s not like it’s a bum out. It’s like super comfy.
It’s safe to say that Warped Tour has gone south over the years, but if you were to ask [Warped Tour founder] Kevin Lyman who his ideal lineup would be, NOFX would be near the top. Is he someone you still come in contact with?
Well, I mean, yes we still talk. He came up to see Home Street Home and we’re close friends, but he realized six or seven years ago that he gets the same crowd every year and doesn’t have to bring any of these old punks bands that ask for a lot of money. He can bring these news bands who he can pay $2,000. Us and Rancid and Bad Religion and Dropkick Murphys – we all want a lot of money because that’s what we make. That’s what I love about Kevin Lyman. For years and years he gave all the money to the old school punk bands, which was fucking awesome. But when times got tougher and Warped Tour was not doing that well he was like “I can’t pay you guys the money I used to. Do you still want to do the tour?” And we’re like “Well, no. We’re going to make twice as much in a club.”
Before I let you go, I want to ask you about the It’s Not Dead Fest coming up in October. I haven’t seen a lineup that stacked for years. How did that all get orchestrated?
What is that?
It’s a festival taking place an hour from LA. It’s you guys, Lagwagon, H2O, Bad Religion, Bouncing Souls…
I don’t know about it. Is that a Kevin Lyman thing?
No, I don’t think so. [It is, in fact, being promoted by Kevin Lyman.] It looks like it could be Warped Tour 1999, though. Everybody is on it. It’s insane.
If we’re on it, I’ll be there.
Photo: Alan Snodgrass
